it's important to me to have a photograph that is timeless. a photo that in 10 years from now, i can still have in my book because trend doesn't date it. because of that, here are some things i avoid:
- locations that don't make sense (babies on train tracks, brides in broken-down trucks)
- backgrounds with trendy patterns.
- tutus, leg warmers and brain squeezers. (unless you are shooting toddler dressing up.)
- certain props: do chairs belong in fields? not really. have we seen the balloon enough? yes, though i'm totally guilty of that one.
- photoshop actions. if you like a specific style, learn to do it yourself and keep it consistent -but buying someone else's actions doesn't make you a better photographer, it just gives you "their" style, not yours.
- trendy clothing.
- vignettes created through post-editing programs.
- watermarks. do you see annie leibovitz watermarking her images? i don't think so.
- shooting anything that is someone else's style.
in the end, be true to yourself. if you love all the things listed above, then forget this post... but the number two thing i'm asked about is how to style and in word, i would say...
... timeless.
nicolephoto.com from this shoot
i'm not a photographer so maybe i shouldn't comment... but holy cow. thank you. you said all i wish i could.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Although I do watermark my pictures. I'm not a super fabulous photographer and even though I resized and changed the picture...there have been issues.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you 100%. I hate looking at a photo and knowing what action they used, or who they are copying. Photography isn't about what you can do in photoshop, but so many people don't seem to get that.
ReplyDeleteI love your photos for the clean, timeless look that you are talking about.
Amen.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHI Millar,
ReplyDeleteI know portrait photographers worry that clients will use the images, but think about it this way. Isn't your time and talent more valuable than paper? If so, charge more for YOU and give them the images. They should be able to have them.
N
Those are insightful tips! I agree, timeless photographs are the best. Remember some years ago when people would do B&W and then have the bride's flowers only in color (or the groom's tie or baby's headbow?) Now when I see those I think 1990's.
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU for saying this! I really can't stand most photographers sites. It's funny because most of the photographers I used to love a year or two ago I can't even stand to look at their work now, their images look so over photoshopped.
ReplyDeletecan we please add the image of someone in front of a train with graffiti on it?
ReplyDeleteWhoops. I'm totally guitly of so many things on this list. Legg warmers check. Balloons check. Tutus check. Haha
ReplyDeletenicole, it's so true. years back, it took me a short time to shed the trends and find my true photographer self, and when i did, not only did i love my pictures more, but clients began to hire me for me. i also agree that clients should receive their images, and i always encourage them to blog their images. the one and only reason i watermark is because once someone found my blog, saved my pictures (pictures of me and my family), posted them on their own made-up blog, and claimed not only the pictures themselves, but claimed to BE me. long story. once i started placing small, unobtrusive, not-ugly (haha), watermarks in the corners of my images (personal and professional), they stopped taking my pictures. that's not to say they won't stop being a creep, but it was the least i could do. i would hate to find someone stealing images of my client's kids or something, just to post them as their own or do something else creepy online. not that a watermark would prevent that, especially since smart creeps would just cut it out, and i realize the benefit of a pure, unmarked photo, but after what happened to me (it was honestly devastating), i figure it's worth a shot. with all the scary people online i'm sure you've thought of this before, but do you just accept the risk?
ReplyDelete... I' trying to find my own style and sometimes I need words like yours!...Thank you!
ReplyDeleteInteresting to read your point of view and I can't agree more.
ReplyDeleteCan't wait to read your book !
I admit I'm a little guilty of the vignetting. Sometimes I just can't help myself but I'm slowing weaning myself:)
ReplyDeleteBut I totally agree with you about the watermark thing. If someone wants to take your images a watermark isn't going to stop them. It just detracts from the photo.
I LOVE this! Especially in Utah you see SO many of these things and they all tend to look cheesy. I also think Photoshop is WAY over-used, but that's my opnion. I like and appreciate photography that shows the actual telent of the photographer, not how skilled they are at the computer. I'm glad you wrote this!
ReplyDeletetimeless.
ReplyDeletei think keeping that in mind with fashion, photography, hair and makeup is very important.
well said.
What a great list - and so true!! I am by no means a photographer, but I love clean, simple, classic lines.
ReplyDeleteI loved reading this post and, while I'm guilty of some of the trends listed, I agree 100 percent. I've also enjoyed everyone's comments and had to agree with and laugh at Melinda's example of colorized photos. Yuck! I had a client request this once and I just about died. Do you SEE something like that anywhere in my body of work? No way. Not because I don't know how to do it, but because I have the self respect not to.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this post! I have often felt like my amateur photos are "boring" because I don't like many of the trendy things that a lot of people are doing with their pictures. I, too, like the idea of my photos being timeless.
ReplyDeletegenius. thanks for this, nicole. i like how you think.
ReplyDeleteI Too agree 110%, Especially the Chair thing, and the train tracks and babies! So weird! I do watermark, My hubby is totally paranoid...
ReplyDeleteI love you Nicole Hill.
ReplyDeleteAMEN! Loved the babies on train tracks comment.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't stop laughing when I read the bride in the old truck, who's idea was this? I think I have seen 100 brides in dirty old trucks. I really don't want rust on my dress.
ReplyDeletecould you do a "before and after photoshop" post and share what little editing you do do. sharpening? lighting adjustment? I know that you try to do as little as possible, but I'm just interested to see the difference between the before and after
ReplyDeleteenjoyed reading this post as well...and i'm am also guilty of many of these...i placed a bride on train tracks just recently. ;)
ReplyDeletei love your style nicole, and in my opinion, you are one of the few photographers that is able to produce "timeless" images. your style is beautiful, clean, and simple. i love it.
that being said, let me offer my humble opinion. i don't believe there to be anything that is exactly timeless. hair, make-up, clothing...it all goes out of style. everything is always changing. the other day, my dad (an architect and structural engineer) and i were talking about sky scrapers, and he told me that the tallest building in the world is only the tallest building in the world for a few months.
sooner or later, time will always catch up to timeless.
wow, that sounded really dramatic.
Hi Lucy!
ReplyDeleteHere you go: http://nicolehill.blogspot.com/2009/04/truth-be-told.html
Hey Brittany!
I actually disagree. I would recommend checking out Richard Avedon's work. I just went to his exhibit here in SF and Adam and I walked around trying to guess the year he took certain images.. Sometimes, were 40 years off! There are still hairstyles, clothes and makeup that I would consider timeless --though it's hard to pull all those off! I'm talking more about extremes in trends --which seem to be lingering around portrait photography even longer than they are out of style.
Good discussion we're all having!
N
thanks, nicole!
ReplyDeleteAmen. It's about time a reputable photographer said this.
ReplyDeleteI say this as a non photographer, but after a while it's hard to take all the ridiculously obscure objects posed innocently in bales of hay or fields of flowers seriously.
that is the cutest photo ever!!! love the lip!
ReplyDeleteThank you, thank you, thank you! This is the best blog post I've read anywhere for quite awhile.
ReplyDeleteIt needed to be said, and you said it perfectly.
Thanks again.
it's funny that since going to your class and hearing your opinion on all the trends it is now my opinion and i feel the need to share it with EVERYONE i know! um can you say follower? :) but seriously it's true! and while most trends are irritating, overdone & just a mask for poor photography.....is it bad that i love a baby in front of a paisley background?! i do. and i'll shout it from the rooftops. until next week, when i hate it.
ReplyDeleteI'm just starting with photography and trying to find my style. I love this post. I can't agree more!
ReplyDeleteLOVE this post. All of it is totally true! I've seen a lot of copycats out there + and it makes me sad! Also, I tired of this trendy "vintage looking" photography.
ReplyDeleteI so agree! That's why I love your photography, because it's ... well, it's photography, not photoshop. I love photoshop, but have actually purposefully not learned much about it until I get better at getting great photos straight out of my camera.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I do have one question about your list. I never saw watermarks as trendy, just as a way to protect photos - especially those being posted somewhere on the world wide web - from being taken without permission. Do you mean if people leave them on, even when distributing to clients? (Like Olan Mills?) Or do you mean don't do it at all?
Incidentally, I thought it worth mentioning that I am not a professional, I just like photography.
ReplyDeleteI'm posting again on behalf of my husband's biggest "trend" pet peeve in photoshop, and it's that of the noseless children of the world. Seriously - it may make their eyes "pop" a bit, but where does their nose go????
first of all - i completely agree with the 'locations that don't make sense' - babies on train tracks? sounds slightly dangerous..
ReplyDeletealso, your work is magnificent. i really hope you'll be teaching classes in san francisco soon. i'd love to learn from you.
thanks for posting this!
Fantastic post. And so important to keep in mind with Christmas card season upon us.
ReplyDeleteAwesome post Nicole. I heard you say this at the photo 101 class and although it stung a bit at first it was because I have done some of these things. Thanks for opening our eyes to another way of photographing.
ReplyDeleteThe trend I dislike the most is photographers who have this "trunk of trendy clothing" that they use to dress all of the children they photograph.
Hi buddens...
ReplyDeleteHere are the two main reasons I think people watermark:
1. So that clients won't use these images instead of ordering from them.
2. So everyone else knows who took it.
You don't need a watermark for copyright protection and I'm a huge believer in charging for time and talent, not paper. Portrait photographers vehemently disagree, but I think that if a client pays your for photos, they should get the photos.
Plus, I don't see any commercial photographers watermarking their images. It's just silly and in my opinion, instead of looking professional, it looks amateur.
But again, just my opinion.
N
thank you for this! i feel with the availability of digital SLR's now days, there are so many new "photographers" out there who photoshop the crap out of their photos, or who overexpose them to the point that you can't even see the detail in the brides dress because that's "what's in style". and i'm so over the bright, crazy colors.
ReplyDeleteI love your photos- classy and timeless. :)
P.S.
ReplyDeleteYou hit the nail on the head with this...
"I know portrait photographers worry that clients will use the images, but think about it this way. Isn't your time and talent more valuable than paper? If so, charge more for YOU and give them the images. They should be able to have them."
I so agree and wish I would have found a photographer for my wedding day that felt this way! (sadly, I didn't know about you at the time) While, I loved the photos, the cost of printing was ridiculous and now, years later I wish I could find the person who has my proofs (the company that did them went out of business), to have pictures of family members from that day.
I agree with all the trend comments with the exception of watermarking.
ReplyDeleteYes, I am a portrait photographer. I am actually not worried about my clients stealing my images or my fame - I am worried about the "internets". If anything, it is there more to *protect* my clients from random people lifting my images to use however they see fit, sometimes for bad reasons. (Yes, this happens quite often, unfortunately).
My clients hire me for my time, knowing my print prices. Some like to purchase a few prints, some an entire canvas wall gallery - quite a range of cost of goods. They *want* me to process it and print it to ensure the best quality and reproduction. More prints = more work for me, thus the costs. That said, if anything I don't think it is fair or efficient to charge a flat rate for different needs. Commercial work is different to me, because the job is typically laid out before shooting even starts. If I new exactly what the end product would be, both material and time-wise, yes, I could charge a flat rate.
I think it is silly for consumers to complain about what a particular photographer charges and not being able to afford their prints. Everyone knows the costs going into it. I would love a new car, but I am not going to complain to the dealer that his prices are ridiculous and that they should really just give it to me for what I can afford.
Side note, but I love your work and your style Nicole - a breath of fresh air.
I don't agree with some of this post, but it was an interesting read none the less. I'm glad to read your approach to your style :)
ReplyDeletelove this discussion!
ReplyDeleteLoved the post. Love the discussion that it has created! For those of you who know Chase Jarvis (awesome photographer) he posted this on his blog-
ReplyDelete(http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog/2009/11/purists-beware.html)
Interesting debate going on about "photoshop". It really isn't anything new. The same techniques have been used in photography since its beginning. The process is different, but a timeless image is the same in the end. Check out the post, its great.
christin,
ReplyDeleteoh absolutely! i was manipulating in the darkroom as well. today, i do slight enhancing to my images so i guess i'm no purist either.
thanks for the link! really interesting.
N
Please disclose the secret of vignetting without Photoshop? Is it the lens hood? I've tried that unsuccessfully.
ReplyDeleteI so wish you did family sessions...I'm loving that baby photo.
ReplyDeletethanks, anna
ReplyDeleteama,
natural vignetting is either through the lens (wide angle) or through natural fall-off from the light source.
N
Fabulously said. This should be heard round the world- thanks for putting a voice to it!
ReplyDeleteyou're young...and you need to lower yourself from that pedestal sister
ReplyDeleteWell put. It is too easy for people who have a DSLR to rely on deleting, unlimited frames, and photoshop to replace real photographic knowledge (i.e. proper exposure, lighting and the inverse square law, the zone system, color temperature, etc,). The photographer whom I assisted stressed to me often the importance of making the image look right in-camera and doing as little post-production as possible, if any. He is at AFI now becoming a cinematographer, but here is an excellent post wrote awhile ago that stresses the importance of learning the "art and craft" of photography.
ReplyDeleteOops. Clicked 'publish' before I pasted the link. http://wesmanden.blogspot.com/2009/06/art-and-craft-of-photography.html
ReplyDeleteHey Nicole,
ReplyDeleteI watermark for protection. I'm not worried about clients because I give them a disc with all the pictures. I'm worried about the non-clients. There's a lot of creepy people and I had a picture of my son taken from my blog and used without my permission in a baby photo contest. They said he was their son. It was a mess to deal with and I don't want anyone to take pictures off my blog, of my child or any of my clients and use them in a negative way.
Can you suggest a better way of protecting the pictures?
Hi Ryan,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the link --well said.
Hi Just Me,
Are you anonymous because of what you said? I don't think an opinion (which was an answer to questions) equals arrogance. Your comments aren't welcome here.
N
Wow just read the link Christin Anderson sent and the comments associated with the article. There are some really good points on both sides. To each his own I suppose.
ReplyDeleteabsolutely -i'm not stating we should all have the same style...
ReplyDeletejust to clear the air, i'm not bashing trendy photography -i'm just stating WHAT it is and why i don't shoot it. of course, there are plenty of moms who want photos of their kids in leg warmers and that is TOTALLY fine -but i don't shoot it because it is a trend -and most trends just don't make sense to me.
brittany,
ReplyDeletea bob is timeless, red lipstick is timeless, a little black dress is timeless and the empire state building is timeless.
I think you should add something about the texture trend though. That's one that really bothers me.
ReplyDeleteI LOVE you for posting this.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I am SO sick of blog photos of the tips of people shoes from an overhead view.
I giggle when I see people on a sofa in a a field. It always makes me think of a tornado blowing some rich person's art deco reupholstered antique hundreds of feet in the air and then having it land in a corn field.
Can you explain to me what "post-editing vignette's are?". And by the way you have totally made me feel so validated in my thinking. I have done some of these things, but wasn't 100% sure I liked them (chair in field, old cars, junk yards). but never was convinced with myself that I really like that style. So I feel more confidant in my opinion-thank you. I can't wait for your online classes and textbook. I just found out we might be moving to SF so maybe someday I can take one of your live classes, (I wasn't in town for you Utah class).
ReplyDeleteholy cats! lost of conversation on this post...how fun!
ReplyDeletenicole- i love richard avedon's work. i had actually only seen a few of his pieces, but decided to check more of his work out after you suggested it. i really love how he photographs people. i still find that clothing, hair, etc... changes, and is constantly on the move; but i do believe that emotions are timeless, and that is something a photographer can capture. (love his portrait of kevin kline in a fat suit.)
and again, i love how you photograph people. and i love how you capture them in their natural environment.
rubi- see, i know i am really going against popular thought here, but i disagree.
the empire state building, a little black dress, red lipstick, and a bob may be classic, but not timeless.
hair, make-up, clothing, art, architecture, and music, are constantly changing; and i love that!
I agree with brittany, classic does not equate timeless.
ReplyDeleteI'll be unpopular with you ;)
Nicole,
ReplyDeleteThank you, thank you, thank you!
my dear and very talented friend, Lindsey Stewart of Green Apple Photography, once said when she is considering how much post work she will do or what trends she will follow she asks herself "what would J CREW do?" Great advise! I feel that J. Crew has a timeless quality.
I think to each their own. As long as you are true to yourself.
I studied photograhy at the University of Utah where they have a "purist" approach. shooting in digital was even frowned upon. this was only 4 years ago. I had the digital vs film debate within myself for a long time.
I've decided for myself that I want to do as little post work as possible not only to keep my work "pure" but also because I would rather spend my time shooting than at my computer. it's the post work that i dread.
one question:
some photographers charge for a sitting and prints, and some even require they print through them. Do you offer printing through you or just the sitting and CD? Are you ever concerned with your work being misrepresented by shotty printing at such places as Costco or Inkleys?
Sometimes I don't think people realize the quality they are sacrificing.
How do you avoid that?
thank you, as always, for your wonderful posts!
I disagree...I might not understand or agree with some of the things that are currently trendy (ie the flower on the head), but I do like others (legwarmers and custom hats) and I feel to each their own. I don't think trendy photos should replace timeless ones, but in a given shoot, you can only have so many "timeless" images and the rest you can add to the package with some fun stuff. I guarantee that if a client has the option of 2 photographers, charging the same amount...one offering 15-20 images that are all timeless, and the other offering 20-25 images that are both timeless and trendy...they'll pick the second.
ReplyDeletePhotographers might get sick of trends faster than clients since we look at photo sites a lot more often.
I also think that some of your images have a trendy style to them.
I wonder where the line was between train tracks (or whatever) being a structural visual element in a photo and being a cliche -- when it became about the train tracks and not what a bunch of big blocky parallel elements allowed you to do with the composition. (Anyway I would guess that is how that ridiculousness began.)
ReplyDeleteNow, brides on train tracks, that's different. Especially if they're tied up! (Because after a long long time, cliches become funny...)
What a great post! I love all the discussion and hearing everyone's opinion.
ReplyDeleteMy two cents. If it makes you and your clients happy; then shoot a baby on a couch, in a field while wearing legwarmers! Shoot what YOU enjoy in the style that you enjoy!
I know that I love looking back at my parents old pictures because I enjoy the beehive hairdo's, horn rimmed glasses and cuffed pants with penny loafers. I love seeing the way things once looked.
As far as timeless, I would have to agree with the people that say there is no such thing. I am sure people once thought toga's, codpieces, monocles, and the pyramids were here to stay. One of these days "the little black dress" will be a dusty relic in some museum!
As corny as it sounds just "be true to yourself"!
i absolutely agree that people should shoot in the style they love. the commenting kind of got carried away from the fact that THIS is what I shoot and WHY. I see most of my students picking up a style that they are not sure they like, but they do it because "this" photographer does it and moms like it. --that's what i see to be ridiculous. you should shoot for your taste. I still stand behind saying "beware of trends." there are parts that are unavoidable, but i would never intentionally dress, style, light or compose to follow a trend.
ReplyDeletetimeless might have been the wrong word because obviously my work doesn't look like it was shot in the 40s because of the advancement of digital --so can we say "classic" and call it quits? i appreciate the comments and discussion.
I don't ever comment on your blog and you don't know me but this post was one of the best I have ever read. I am not a photographer nor a big time blogger and don't even know how to use our Nikon (the hubs is the main user). But I LOVE that you just taught me what is it to capture endless moments and you did in a few short lines. We don't have children but I already think about family photos. I really want something great and I just got my answer. :)
ReplyDeleteThank you!
Are we talking about "timeless" or "datable"? I think a photo like Dorothea Lange's of people in the Dust Bowl crisis of the 1930s is timeless because of the human emotion it evokes, but you can date it. You can look at that photo and make a good guess about when it was taken. Richard Avedon's photos are datable. I went to the same exhibit in San francisco and it was fun to see photos of well-known people when they were younger. I think you could definitely tell when the photos were taken.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think the fun of family photos is looking at them years after they were taken, and laughing at what we were wearing, what we thought was cool. It's kind of a way to see how far you've come...to watch the change that happens. I personally agree with avoiding some of the trends you listed, but as you said too, I don't mind if other people like a certain style.
I am so grateful for this discussion because it really made me think hard about what I am trying to learn to capture as a amateur/learning photographer: I want to tell stories. Telling stories means attaching a date and a place to the image through what someone is wearing, how they are standing, what their surroundings are. I think I want to take photos that are time-full.
Thank you, Nicole, for this discussion. It made me think hard, and it made me more deliberate about what direction I want to take as a photographer.
i know what you're trying to say...don't wear purple tights, with a leopard print skirt, with a striped sweater, with a flower corsage, with a big flower in your hair, while standing on the train tracks with a floral print background. don't over-do it, right? I am now thinking that the best word for what you are describing is to keep it simple, yes?
ReplyDeleteSo helpful - thanks for the tips!
ReplyDeleteI loved this list and I loved reading this discussion. What I like changes everyday...
ReplyDeleteReally interesting discussion.
ReplyDeleteI love the creative outlet that photography provides, & we're all so different.
I liked the advice that I got in a workshop on composition a few months ago... While talking about the "rule of thirds" the photographer said that as much as it made sense, breaking that rule is sometimes genius.
I don't love hearing about things to avoid, because sometimes, rules are made to be broken. And sometimes capturing images that reflect where a client is in life NOW (even if it's wearing bright tights & patterned skirts & bold sweaters with lots of accessories) is what we're / they're going for, & that's okay. There's a time & a place for both, I think.
But I get what you're saying - "if you love all things listed above, then forget this post." Exactly. YOUR style is yours. And that's great. You're consistent & true to that style. I just don't think that we should jump on the bandwagon of making fun of people who follow their own style / pick up on a certain trend because they like it. It's part of our craft, & they're entitled to that creative license without being subject to rules & guidelines of people who think they know best.
This is a great post! Thank you for sharing these thoughts. Definitely gave me something to think about. The only one that is making me think is the watermark issue. I thought it was more of a ownership/protection think so people weren't stealing your work. But now I'm noticing you don't watermark your stuff. Is it totally pointless to even bother with the watermarking? I would love to hear more about your thoughts on this and the reality of it all.
ReplyDeleteComing back to this post more than two years later and it still holds true. Timeless advice :) Thanks for sharing this and I agree that we should value the big picture role our photography will have in our clients' lives. Timelessness is what inspired me to do work based on a photo of my grandmother from the '50s! http://www.rachelhadiashar.com/boudoir/about/
ReplyDelete